In my last post I mentioned how the fiancé and I wanted to enjoy the first day or two of our proposal by ourselves.And that’s true… but I also had another reason for keeping it to ourselves in the very beginning.I knew this proposal wasn’t over yet.
Many years ago the fiancé and I were talking about weddings, engagements, and proposals.Neither of us was quite ready for that step, but we like to talk about everything.I mentioned that I could see myself proposing to him and that I didn’t think the proposal was only the man’s job.While the fiancé agreed that a proposal wasn’t just a “man’s job,” he also confessed that proposing to me was something he really wanted to do.I knew then I had to let the fiancé propose first.And I mean first, because I had a plan to propose back to the fiancé after he asked me.
We returned home from Hawaii (with a ring on my finger) late in the evening.The next morning the fiancé had to get up early to run an errand, but was planning to return to bed.While he was gone I left a little present on his pillow*:
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When he came home he was very surprised!I proposed to him and he accepted!Although he didn’t technically say yes until a few minutes later over breakfast ;).
Now the engagement was 100% official and we started spreading the word like peanut butter on toast!
*About a year before the actual proposal I felt it was time to get prepared and I bought these cufflinks as a proposal gift.I considered getting him a ring or a watch, but I knew that he really wanted nice cufflinks, and this way he can wear them on our wedding day.Turns out he actually bought the ring around the same time—we had them both burning holes in our pockets (or secret hiding spots) for almost a year!
Okay, ladies & gents, it’s finally time for me to tell you how we got engaged! In two parts!
Part 1
For our ten-year anniversary the fiancé (then BF) and I decided to go on a short trip to Maui.I had always wanted to do something special for our ten-year anniversary, especially since there were so many years we couldn’t celebrate (my favorite is when we had a big fancy dinner planned for our 6th anniversary and my brother called the day before and said this: “There was a small fire in my dorm room and now it smells funny.I’m coming to stay with you this weekend.”).
Neither of us had ever been to Hawaii, and we were very excited.I thought a proposal was possible; I had recently re-warmed to the idea of marriage, I had just finished grad school, he was almost done with grad school, it was our 10th anniversary, and we were in Hawaii.It just made sense.We had an amazing time the first couple days in Hawaii; we snorkeled with sea turtles, we hiked to petroglyphs, we drank many pina coladas and mai tais.But after our actual anniversary day ended without a proposal, I wasn’t sure it was going to happen.We only had one day left on the island and we decided to drive the Hana Highway.The Hana Highway is a beautiful (and intense) drive with many places to stop off and explore.About halfway through the drive we pulled off to do a short hike to a small waterfall.We were all alone there, so I went to set up a picture.
This isn’t the best picture of us (at all!), but you can see Mr. Cheetah holding the ring box in his clasped hand on the right.
Right after the picture was taken Mr. Cheetah turned to me and showed me the ring. And didn’t say anything!Finally I said “and?”He asked me to marry him, I said yes and then came the very sweet speech. :) Which I wish I remembered better...
Here’s the ring!It’s a lovely sapphire and he picked it out himself.This photo was taken right after his proposal.
And one more back home:
And a better shot of the proposal spot:
Unlike most newly engaged couples, we didn’t start calling people right away.We wanted to enjoy the new engagement and the last hours of our vacation just the two of us. But I did call my sister from the airport the next day.
Part 2
Mr. Cheetah and I wanted to enjoy the first day or two of our proposal by ourselves. And that’s true… but I also had another reason for keeping it to ourselves in the very beginning. I knew this proposal wasn’t over yet.
Many years ago Mr. Cheetah and I were talking about weddings, engagements, and proposals. Neither of us was quite ready for that step, but we like to talk about everything. I mentioned that I could see myself proposing to him and that I didn’t think the proposal was only the man’s job. While Mr. Cheetah agreed that a proposal wasn’t just a “man’s job,” he also confessed that proposing to me was something he really wanted to do. I knew then I had to let him propose first. And I mean first, because I had a plan to propose back to Mr. Cheetah after he asked me.
We returned home from Hawaii (with a ring on my finger) late in the evening. The next morning Mr. Cheetah had to get up early to run an errand, but was planning to return to bed. While he was gone I left a little present on his pillow*:
When he came home he was very surprised! I proposed to him and he accepted! Although he didn’t technically say yes until a few minutes later over breakfast ;).
Now the engagement was 100% official and we started spreading the word like peanut butter on toast!
*About a year before the actual proposal I felt it was time to get prepared and I bought these cufflinks as a proposal gift. I considered getting him a ring or a watch, but I knew that he really wanted nice cufflinks, and this way he can wear them on our wedding day. Turns out he actually bought the ring around the same time—we had them both burning holes in our pockets (or secret hiding spots) for almost a year!
I’m an artist, I deal with colors all the time.In fact color is a hugely important aspect of a lot of my work.So why am I crazy struggling with our wedding palette!?!?
The Viceroy has a very defined color palette of black, white & yellow.It looks fantastic and I definitely want to work with it—but I also definitely want to add to it.My first thought was pink.All sorts of pinks look great with the Viceroy Palette and I’ve always pictured myself with a pink bouquet.So I pictured black, white, yellow, soft rose, & bright raspberry.I also wanted a more neutral color to work with, so I threw in grey.
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My first color palette.And I like it.But I just can’t commit.Some days I think about throwing out the pinks and putting in orange.Orgoing citrus on it with orange and lime.But most the time I just think about adding a color to the above palette.Aqua.Coral. Or maybe Charcoal.
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Here's a gorgeous wedding with a similar palette to my first idea:
It’s getting down to the wire for me to pick bridesmaid dresses and start planning the invitations, so I want to have this figured out sooner rather than later. So Hive, which color palette do you like best?
Okay, I was just about to write a post about color palettes—but I can’t anymore because I just got some exciting news!
Bridesmaid Buenos Aires is engaged!!!And she is getting married in THREE weeks!Ahhhh!I’m SO excited!
As you may have guessed from her oh-so-clever moniker, she lives in Argentina.I have known BM BA forever, she is a good family friend and really she has been a part of our family since she was 6, joining us on family vacays and everything.
Here’s a picture of me and BM BA:
Yup, in matching shirts. That’s how we role.
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BA and her fiancé (!!!) have an amazing international love story.A few years ago BA decided to move to Argentina for a year to teach English.She had an amazing time there and became friends with many people, including a great guy named R.After the year was up, BA moved back to her hometown of Chicago.Many months later R decided to move to Paris, and he stopped in Chicago to visit BA for a week first.It was there that their friendship evolved into something more—but it was just a wonderful, but short, week.Neither BA or R knew if it would ever be anything more.He was in Paris, she was in Chicago.They kept in touch, but weren’t a couple until BA went to visit him in France for a week.Now they were in love.So when R moved back to Argentina, BA soon followed.After living there together over a year R popped the question with a strawberry ring pop.Since they are an international couple they decided to have a short engagement followed by an intimate wedding in Buenos Aires.Next year they will have a bigger wedding celebration in Chicago.Woo-hoo!Congrats BA & R!!!
An invite to my own bachelorette!I’ve never gotten an invite to a party in my honor before!Woo-hoo!Or, since it’s in Texas, yee-haw!
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My lovely sister, the MOH, sent these out and is arranging a bachelorette weekend with the other bridesmaids.Since my ladies live all over the place (3 in IL, 3 all over CA, 1 in South America), it just made sense to travel somewhere for the bachelorette.We wanted somewhere warm, centrally located, and easy & cheap to get to, and Austin it is!I’ve never been to Texas before (unless airports count), and I’m crazy excited!Like save-a-horse-ride-a-cowboy excited!Okay, maybe that doesn’t make sense, but I wanted to say it.I’m going to Texas!
Any suggestions about what we should do in Austin, y’all?See, I’m breaking in my Texas accent already.
So now you know how I asked most of my bridal party, but I had one lady left.My cousin "Kales". She is 15 so she is sort of in limbo between junior bridesmaid and bridesmaid.While she isn’t old enough to have a lot of the responsibilities of my other bridesmaids, she will be dressed the same and stand up there beside me with all my other ‘maids (7!).
Although BM Kales lives 2,000 miles away I was lucky enough to see her shortly after the engagement.I wanted to invite her to be a part of my wedding party in a similar way as the other BMs.
While looking for vintage Palm Springs images (a new fave pastime of mine), I found it.A cover of a Betty & Veronica comic book called “Palm Springs Weekend.”After some adjustments in Photoshop, I had the front of the card down:
If you look closely you can see “my” character says: “Palm Springs is the Tops!I meant to ask you…” And “Kales” responds: “What is it, cousin?”
And the card interior:
I attached the card to a candy bouquet, just as I had done with my other ‘maids.
She accepted!My bridal party was complete!
Here’s a picture of a bunch of us:
Little Bro, MOH Sis, BM Kales, Baby Bro, Mr. Cheetah, Me
You may be surprised to find out that I wasn’t always sure I wanted to get married—especially since I love weddings and had ideas for my own wedding before we even decided to get hitched.But it’s true, as much as I love weddings and other celebrations, there were a lot of conflictions in figuring out if marriage was right for me.It was never about spending the rest of my life with Mr. Cheetah.I was always sure of that—and after being together for a decade (and living together most of those years) we already felt very committed to each other.
I’m a feminist (so is Mr. Cheetah), and I have given a lot of thought about what it means for a woman to enter into marriage today.In the past there were many sexist aspects of marriage.A woman was to obey her husband, domestic abuse laws did not exist, a woman’s worth was closely tied to her virginity, her property became her husband’s after they were wed, her name was never carried on—she had to take his.And the list goes on.Women were in a tough spot; there weren’t many choices for them.Very few careers were open to women, and women did not get paid well (remember women today still make less than men).Often women had to get married just to have a livelihood.
A couple years back with the recognition of same sex marriages in many places I could really get behind the idea of marriage—it’s all about love and legal rights.Hey, I like love and equal rights!That’s the kind of marriage I want!But then prop 8 happened here in CA claiming the marriage was about traditional (read: bigoted) roles.That’s not kind of marriage I want.Thankfully there has been some positive movement on the equal marriage front and I can’t wait for the day that ANY two people can be joined in marriage if they desire to do so.
So why am I getting married?While I believe that you can have meaningful lasting commitments without marriage and that it is a personal choice for all, I ultimately decided I wanted the legal recognition & rights.Being legal next of kin is very important to us.If we have a family this will make things easier as well.Plus, we are really looking forward to pledging our love in front of our nearest and dearest come March. I do not want an old school or “traditional” marriage.I want my marriage.We define what that is.This is one of the many reasons I’m keeping my name and Mr. Cheetah is keeping his.We can be joined, be a family and still have our own histories, identities, and lives.
I give a lot of thought to the meaning that is present in my actions and intentions in my daily life.So I have taken that approach to my wedding and marriage as well.As I said before, we’re both keeping our names, I’ll remain a Ms., he’ll remain a Mr.I will not be “given away” or escorted down the aisle.Mr. Cheetah will walk down alone, and I will walk down alone.After the ceremony we will walk back as a married couple together. Even the word “wife” conjures up ideas of traditional roles and marriage for me.I think we’ll use spouse.There was equality in the proposal too—I guess I should tell you guys about that—post to come soon!
Those mischievous boys Bud Abbott and Lou Costello should be collared by their mothers and shipped off to boot camp. They have been running around with the wrong crowd for too long! Abbott and Costello first got into trouble when they met Frankenstein and Dracula – and drained blood from a full crate of babies outside the Gary, Indiana baby factory. Then there was the time they met those evildoers Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde – and went on an ecstasy-fueled molestation spree that is still shuttered over in Delaware. NOW they’re in kahoots with a KILLER, Boris Karloff! My stars! Reform these sinners before they strike again!
That’s right folks, once again our bumbling duo of disaster hang out with shady associates in this week’s flick, “Abbott and Costello Meet the Killer, Boris Karloff.”
Fathead Lou Costello (the fat one) plays Freddie Phillips, a routinely fired bell boy at the creepy, secluded Lost Caverns Resort Hotel. High-powered criminal attorney Amos Strickland recently checked into the hotel, and has local newshounds buzzing. Rumor has it he is writing a book about all the infamous clients he helped get out of the electric chair. Word gets around that Strickland is going to spill the beans on his former clients, so several of the nefarious characters travel to the hotel in an effort to sew up Strickland’s loose lips.
Upon arrival at the hotel, Strickland has a slapstick scuffle with dumb-assed bell boy Phillips, and gets the dope fired again. Phillips publicly threatens to get him back for his misdeeds, but a short time later realizes an apology might be the best way to get his job back. But when he enters Strickland’s room to offer his sorrys, he finds the attorney has been murdered!
All evidence points to Phillips, but the house detective Casey Edwards (what the hell, hotels had detectives on staff?! Seriously, movie?!) played by Bud Abbott, believes his bell boy pal is innocent and offers to help him avoid arrest while also rooting out the real killer.
Speaking of killers, Boris Karloff stars as Swami Talpur, a hypnotist and former client of murdered Strickland. He and the six other former clients at the hotel soon also come under suspicion by the coppers. But who really killed Strickland?! Was it the vengeful bell boy, or one of the jilted former clients? You might think, oh, I know who did it, I read the movie title. Come on playa! You don’t think the producers would be stupid enough to tell the culprit of a whodunit murder mystery in the title, would you? Could they be that stupid? Hmmm, maybe…
The cops better figure it out soon, because each passing hour brings more murders! As the body count rises, so do the laughs (kind of), in the 1949 horror/comedy cine-bomb “Abbott and Costello Meet the Killer, Boris Karloff.”
RDHP Ratings and Reviews
C-Rating: 1.5 Chris Dimick Abbott-yells: “There is a fine line between amusing and annoying. Just ask my wife. Something can be funny at first, but after awhile gets gear-grindingly infuriating. One of my favorite things to do around the house is take songs – either ones played at the time on a radio/TV or just tunes that randomly pop in my head – and change the lyrics into vile, distributing, swear-filled, perverted lyrics. Hey, we all need hobbies. This should be the point where I’d give you an example of my performances, but folks, we like to keep this blog PG-13 and any example of this behavior would surely offend someone.
I have to admit; I have quite the talent for taking pure white songs and mangling them into perverted black verse, and can do it at will with nearly any tune.
My main motivation for this behavior is not just for my own amusement, but for that of my wife. A woman with a strong sense of humor, she usually she thinks my dirty songs are funny…usually. At least at first.
But there always comes a time when I sing on too long and throw in just too many over-the-line phrases about bowel movements and human anatomy. At that point my wife’s laughs stop, and her face transitions from an amused smile to a cold-eyed glare. “Okay, stop,” is probably what she says. It is hard to tell, since I’m singing with abandon to the music with lyrics that would make a sailor curl into the fetal position.
She did find the act funny, for awhile, but soon my angel like voice spewing devil descriptions just becomes annoying. Though endlessly amusing to myself, it seems one can only take the act for so long. I never truly knew how my wife felt during my musical renditions, until I watched Abbott and Costello Meet the Killer, Boris Karloff.
Like my naughty tunes, the endless whining and zany antics by Lou Costello in this or any A and C movie is very funny at first, even endearing. Bud and Lou verbally spar with wit and grace. The physical comedy and sight gags of Costello even bring laugh out loud moments. But after the first 30 minutes of this act, the whole thing becomes tired and offensive. It had moved from chuckle funny to grunt annoying. The endless idiocy of Costello turns from cute to stupid, and all that whining and high-pitched vocal intonation quickly gets old.
Maybe in the 1940s this style of comedy was so new people could find it hilarious for more than a half hour. But to me the whole Abbott and Costello act just seems like a big Three Stooges rip-off. Costello blatantly steals the act of the Stooges’ Curly – the overweight, smart-mouthed, dim-witted, physical comedy manimal.
Don’t start with me about how they are subtlety different. I’ve heard that argument before in the now raging debate about similar awkward actors Michael Cera and Jesse Eisenberg. The blunt bottom line is this: Curly is hilarious and loveable. Costello is annoying and a tool. And like Eisenberg, he stole someone’s act (go Team Cera!).
Add in that this movie’s plot makes absolutely no sense and most of the movie is spent boringly moving dead bodies around the hotel, and it was easy for this guy to go from entertained to enraged pretty damn fast.
Of course, this recent revelation on humor doesn’t mean my unique vocal styling will cease to emanate from the Dimick home. No matter how hard I try, I just can’t stop the music. But perhaps now I will stop singing my subversive tunes when my wife indicates she no longer finds them funny at that moment. After all, my point is to make not one, but both of us, laugh. A good singer knows two things: When to quit, and to always go out on a high, filthy note.
N-Rating: 1.3 Nick Rich Abbott-yells: "My senior year in high school I fancied myself an "actor" and even angled to arrange for one of my periods to be a focused study hour with the drama teacher, so I could work on my "craft" (aka slack off). In particular, I remember my final project of the semester, which was to actually do a monologue (the horror). Prior to this I had mainly been hanging out (you know, senioritis) and helping the teacher with the actual class he had that period. The accomplished thespian I was, I probably found and started working on the monologue a week before it was due. Basically I thought I was the bomb and could just walk out on stage, cold read the piece and be golden.
Oh, capricious youth.
Much to my surprise, my acting teacher didn't buy it and told me to do the reading again - apparently he didn't believe it. I then proceeded to attempt the monologue again... and again... andagain. In the end I never quite satisfied my teacher, which baffled me - I mean, I was reading the lines, adding some quiver to my voice, got some goosebumps going... what did the man want from me?!? I was acting after all, what more could he ask?
Well, as Abbott and Costello displayed in this weeks film (especially Costello) - a whole lotmore. This was actually my first A&C movie, but naturally I had heard of them and been exposed to one of their more famous bits, so I was expecting quite a few yucks from the funnymen who captivated a generation. Needless to say, I was utterly disappointed.
As I watched Costello's tomfoolery, I couldn't help but think back to my own experience as an actor, in particular the story I shared, and fully understand what my teacher had been talking about: talking doesn't equal acting. This apparently was the school of acting A&C came from, with line deliveries so trite and flimsy I literally think I was more convincing in the 6th grade with my smash breakout roll of Mongo the monster (from the center of the Earth who has come to make teenagers into mindless zombies - little did he know that TV had gotten there first). Costello was downright painful to watch and appeared to have just learned his lines and blocking mere moments before shooting his scenes, instead relying on "zaniness" to carry his performance. I wasn't even convinced he knew his lines, much less that the character he was "portraying" in the film had any kind of realism to it. I get the fact that Costello pretty much was "Costello" in all of his films (and for some reason unbeknownst to me apparently people liked that, which is an entirely different issue), but come on! Being zany is no excuse to not act, and it certainly doesn't hold up after 60 years.
Admittedly, I'm not an A&C aficionado, so ACMTKBK may very well have been towards the end of their run at the top (please let it be so) and they may have been just shooting the flick to get a paycheck (Boris looked to be in full paycheck mode a la Voodoo Island after all). I can respect this, homies need to get their paper made after all... but if this is not the case, and indeed an example of quality A&C schtick, I weep for the generation that thought this was funny. Weep.
The Skinny: Watch this flick if you feel like having your image of the Greatest Generation tarnished or... wait, there is no or - skip this one!
Things We Learned from ACMTKBK: -News can be cooking. -Murder is not permitted in some upscale hotels. -Turtles love slip-in-slides. -You can hypnotize people by waving your hand. -The only time Karloff is not scary is when he’s dressed like a space alien. -Stingy cops don’t give the third degree. -Best way to reverse a murder, pour water on the deceased. -Booby traps are for catching boobs. -While trying to avoid murder, don’t use a locking steam bath that has a “boil” setting. -Boris Karloff’s voice is indistinguishable to some people. -Friday the 13th Part 2 was not the first movie to feature a pillowcase-wearing killer. -Dames can get brothas to do crazy things. -Men in the 1940s can’t differentiate drag queens from pretty ladies:
Quote of the Viewing: [Costello must dress up like a female maid in order to move various dead bodies through the hotel unnoticed. On the way, he gets accosted by a confused, horny man trying to cop a feel on the “lady.” Shortly after, a detective enters the room and tells his men to “put out a dragnet” for Costello's capture.]
Chris: “I think that horny guy already got caught in a drag-net.” Nick: “Boooooo’-k ‘em, Danno!”
RDHP Salutes: Two Man Comedy Teams!
Good and evil. Light and Dark. Square and funny. Every ying has its yang, and in order to appreciate the good times, one must experience the bad. Is this why two man comedy teams – like Abbott and Costello – that feature a normal straight foil paired with an over the top comedian have blossomed throughout time? We think so. Below, we salute various comedy duos that have entertained throughout the ages.
Laurel and Hardy
This is one of the first comedy duos to succeed in film. Nothing like a skinny freak next to a fat ass to make you bust a nut.
Chris Farley and David Spade
The RDHP generation’s ultimate comedy duo. The chemistry between lovable-dumb Farley and smart-alec Spade worked even when their material was poorly written (we’re staring down you, Black Sheep). Sad they couldn’t make more funny before Farley self-destructed.
Penn and Teller
It is easy to be a straight man when you don’t have to talk!
Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin
“Hey pretty lady, ougheeee!” And we thought Lou Costello was annoying! At least men and women had Dean Martin to drool over in this combo.
Jay and Silent Bob
The amount that Jay talks, it’s okay if Bob stays silent.
The Smothers Brothers
Go ask your Dad who these guys were. Hell if we know anything about them other than that they are either old or dead now.
Harold and Kumar
Harold is an uptight Asian yuppie, and Kumar an Indian pothead with a dot-head full of tomfoolery. Oh, was that offensive? We’re sorry; Kumar is a Native Mid-South-Asian dot-head with a pothead full of tomfoolery.
William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy
Oh yes, nerds. You know what we’re talking about. Nimoy was the ultimate straight man to Shatner, but if there was anyone who could turn Spock away from being straight, it’d be charismatic Kirk.
Jake and Elwood Blues
They were both kind of straight men. And also at times both funny. They’re comedy duo hermaphrodites.
Sonny and Cher
Weren’t these two gentlemen a funny team!
Redundant Theater Presents: Abbott and Costello’s Most Overplayed Bit
Just in case you are the only person on the face of the Earth who hasn’t heard this before, we offer it below. Interesting fact: A clip of this act is on permanent display in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
If you are looking for an amazing deal on an amazing dress, head over to Rue La La right this second! Just in case you don't know, Rue La La is a members only flash sale site like Gilt Group.
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image from Rue La La
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Act fast, this sale will sell out soon! If you are not a member you can join with my link here.
The bridal party that is!Having been a bridesmaid a few times before I know what a commitment it can be, so I wanted to do something special to ask my lovely ladies.As a long time lover of weddings, I was always thinking up ideas, even before we had decided to get married.My first thought was sending each future bridesmaid flowers—but with 7 bridesmaids (and a Jr. Maid), that quickly adds up.My 2nd idea was getting them all a wedding themed DVD (27 Dresses, or The Wedding Singer, perhaps) with a cute little card… but I was worried that many of my ladies already had (or didn’t want) those movies.I also thought about sending them a cute bridesmaid book, like this.But then I found the perfect item while shopping at Miette in San Francisco (if you live nearby please visit, and have a macaron for me... yummmm).
candy mini bouquet!
6-7 all in a bunch
They are little candy-covered chocolates arranged like mini bouquets!They were perfect!And it was only about year before we even decided to get married!So I made a mental note. About a year later, right after the engagement, we went to visit the fiancé’s family in Sacramento and we all took a day trip to San Francisco.And I had a plan.Get to Miette and buy 7-8 of these bad boys!Mission Accomplished!
And now to the fun part, packaging them up all cute and the DIY “Will you be my Bridesmaid” cards.I knew I wanted the cards to be cute, but also silly (just like me—ha!).I found a great vintage image of a bride and a bridesmaid that I cut out in an oval and then ran through my brand new Xyron.I attached it to the front of a card (from Papersource).
On the inside, one side had that same vintage image—but now I had Photoshop-ed our heads in, replacing the heads of the bride and ‘maid.On the other side I asked the important question, Will you be my Bridesmaid?Each card was personalized for each bridesmaid.
Next I tied the candy bouquet to each card (now in an ivory envelope) with a bit of tulle ribbon.
I filled a decorative cupcake box (from the Container Store) with some shredded paper. I placed the candy & card inside and tied the whole thing up with some more tulle and a little gift tag with each woman’s name.
ready for my ladies!
Since all my BMs live out of town, my plan was to mail them each the little package, but as it turns out, I was going see 5 of them in the next couple months, so I only had to mail 2.Everyone said yes!Here we all are! The Cheetah Girls!
Me, MOH Sister (my sis!), BM Skates (high school friend), BM Mrs. P (college roommate and grew up with the fiancé), BM WD40 (college roommate), BM GF (college friend), BM Buenos Aires (family friend), BM Sassy (cousin)
Are you having a bridal Party—how did you ask them?
